Seeking opinions and experiences of mindfulness

[Phoenix_Rising]

Good morning fellow forumites.

As you may or may not know, some of us are working through the dialectical behaviour therapy (DBT) skills training manual here: Let's do DBT

This week we are going to embark on the module of mindfulness and I am super interested in hearing what people think about mindfulness. To me, mindfulness is currently the "in thing" in mental health such that you can barely get through a single session with a psychologist without them bringing it up. This leads me to wonder whether mindfulness is always well-explained to people or whether it just gets tossed around as a buzz word.

So, here are two questions for you:

What does the term "mindfulness" mean to you?

Have you had any positive or negative experiences with mindfulness?

I am super interested to hear people's thoughts about this, and if you want to join us on our DBT adventure, you are extremely welcome.

@CheerBear @outlander @Sans911 @Former-Member @Teej @Shaz51 @Former-Member @Former-Member @Former-Member @Former-Member @Former-Member @Former-Member @Former-Member @Former-Member @Former-Member @BlueBay @Queenie @Former-Member @Appleblossom

[Former-Member]

Hello @Phoenix_Rising

I agree it has been thrown around a lot recently.  I do use it though and have for a long time, just didnt call it mindfullness back then.

I slow down, breathe, listen, feel, bring myself present and stop to consider my circumstances.  Really links in with the yoga I think.

[outlander]

great topic @Phoenix_Rising

your right, i barley get through any psych sessions without the generic term mindfullness being used.

what it means to me is basically taking your focus away from your own thoughts and emotions and tuning into something else whether it be noticing colours, counting objects, using the 5 senses to bring you to the real surroundings not where the brain is taking you, e.g back in time to a certain event (hoping that makes sense!)

ive had both good and bad experiences with mindfullness. it took a long while to be able to take my mind off what im thinking or feeling. 

negative- i just kept being made to feel obligated that constantly using the 5 senses - name 5 things smell, hear, etc like it was the solution to EVERYTHING. i started to really hate it and didnt like using it at all and jsut made me more and more frustated that the psych just said to 'kep using mindfullness wiht the 5 senses'. 

positive- once i learnt how to use 'mindfullness' in other ways it started to help. for example instead of always using the same 5 senses strategy i tried using music. i would tune into either just the words and build a picture in my head, or i would just tune into the instruments and name the ones i could hear and be curious to the ones i couldnt. once i learnt that there are other ways that are similar to 'mindfullness' i stopped really using that term as it became to generic so now i say ' im being mindful to music (or art, or a movie, the 5 senses, the weather) 

[Former-Member]

@Phoenix_Rising

To me mindfullness is focusing our attention on what is happening at the present time without judgement.

I find the breathing exercsies useful, them smiling mind app good. I dont fine the 5 senses that useful to list them, but find my coping box with things in it from my five senses useful. They calm me down but they certainly do not allow me to accept things for what they are. They do not take away the negative thoughts and I am still extremely judgemental. Who knows, maybe that will change with time.

[Former-Member]

My brain is not really my friend this morning, so this will no doubt be an inarticulate mess, but I wanted to jot down some brief answers for you, @Phoenix_Rising.

When I think of ‘mindfulness’, I always think of structured mindfulness practice and/or mindfulness meditation. I started a DBT group program years ago and I’ve completed an ACT group program and both of these had a strong focus on structured mindfulness. It made me feel very unsafe.

I can be mindful; I can do things mindfully. But it needs to be on my terms and without an audience.

Structured mindfulness increases my panic. It doesn’t matter if it is in a group or one-on-one, it makes me feel more unsafe. (I’m sure many people would tell me I’m ‘doing it wrong’.)

I struggle to close my eyes at night to go to sleep, so when I’m in a room full of people I don’t really know and someone tells me to close my eyes or, even worse, lie on the floor and close my eyes … I’m not okay with that. There is no way that will EVER make me feel any sort of better.

Focusing on my breathing makes me feel dizzy (or even more dizzy), which makes me feel more out of control, which increases my panic.

I’m sure ‘mindfulness’ is something I will work on if I ever find myself in a situation where I have access to intensive therapy with a great therapist who helps me to feel safe. I can certainly see the benefits of it.

Oh, I also wanted to say that I don’t like the way mindfulness is thrown around as ‘the answer’ for everyone. I don’t think anything about mental health (or life in general, really) is ‘one size fits all’.

[Shaz51]

Very interesting @Phoenix_Rising , have not thought about it really so i am going to  join you on the  DBT adventure,

[Appleblossom]

I strongly agree with points by @Former-Member.

I still have had very few interactions in 30 of therapy about the actual substance of my childhood.

I have had a few throw away lines here on the forum that did me more good than sitting with people who were not prepared to engage with me about the real issues around me in my life.

One size fits all mentality ... will definitely be a problem when dealing with the range of individuals who present for therapy.

That said I have practised contemplation, tai chi, raj and hatha yoga.... so pls give me a break.

If only the emotional state of person is considered without reference to their environment, mindfulness will be a waste of the tax payers dollar.

Therapuetic work ... IMO  requires the counsellor, pdoc or psych to use their imagination and emotions to engage with the conditions of the person and have productive dialogues rather than too many prescriptive impositions.

The way @Former-Member has described it seems like a structural imposition.

I was too much a tryhard and did all the "right" things to help,

but it took 40 years (and a lot of hard knocks) to find out how unusual my childhood was.  Because I was surrounded by many people in orphanages etc I presumed it was common not unusual.

[Phoenix_Rising]

Good morning @Former-Member, @outlander @Shaz51 @Appleblossom

Super big thank you for your responses.

@outlander What you describe about taking your focus away from your own thoughts and emotions is definitely one aspect of mindfulness. Another way of being mindful is to make the thought or emotion the point of focus. That is, rather than focusing your attention on something other than the emotion, you super focus ON the emotion. I do this quite a bit when I am sitting with my big feelings. It's like...rather than avoiding the emotion by distraction etc. I hyper-focus on the emotion - the pain of it and other physical sensations such as tears on my face etc. We will be exploring this idea more over on the DBT thread.

It sucks that you were initially only taught about one way of being mindful (i.e. using the 5 senses). I think this is part of what I mean about it being tossed around as an idea without being well explained. I also totally hear you about being told that mindfulness is the solution to EVERYTHING. I REALLY hate that - it drives me nuts! It sounds like you started to get the hang of what it means to be mindful, once you discovered other ways to do it.

@Nell I super like the definition you gave of focusing attention on what is happening at the present time without judgement . I think part of what gets missed in explanations of mindfulness is that it's not like we try it two or three times and then hey presto, we can do mindfulness. I see mindfulness sort-of like me learning to play the violin. Can I play the violin right now? Yes I can, and I can play better than I could three years ago. Can I now tick violin-playing off my list as something I have learnt. Er...nope (just ask my neighbours!). I can play better than I could three years ago, but not nearly as well as I will be able to play in another three years if I keep practicing and working at it. Mindfulness is like that. It takes a LOT of practice and there really isn't any point at which we go "hey, I can do mindfulness now." It is definitely an ongoing process.

@Former-Member you sounded perfectly articulate to me. I totally hear what you are saying about feeling unsafe practicing mindfulness with anyone else around. I have only just started doing this in the context of my yoga class. I still don't really like the bit at the start and end of the class where we lie down with eyes closed, but I can tolerate it enough to see it as a good chance to practice feeling ok in a situation where I don't entirely feel ok. But yep, I definitely wouldn't have been able to do this in years gone by - hence why it took me so long to psych myself up to go to a yoga class! I have no desire whatsoever to attend any sort of meditation class or anything like that.

In the DBT manual it talks about how participants in DBT groups should not feel compelled to close their eyes during any mindfulness exercises. It super sucks if you were in a group where eyes-closed was insisted on. I think one of the things that makes me feel safe in my yoga class is that my teacher couldn't care less if someone sits upright with their eyes open when she asks people to lie down and close their eyes. I would definitely run a mile if anything was insisted on. And yes, I totally agree with you about how mindfulness is thrown around as "the" solution to everything - super unhelpful!

@Shaz51 I look forward to seeing you on the DBT thread.

@Appleblossom It sounds like moving mindful practices such as tai chi and yoga work well for you? I definitely find yoga super helpful in managing my big feelings.

Well thank you again everybody for your thoughts. You have given me some ideas about what sorts of things it would be helpful to include when I'm writing about mindfulness on the DBT thread...which you are all super welcome to come and visit.

[Sahara]

Hi @Phoenix_Rising, @Appleblossom, @Shaz51, @Former-Member, @Former-Member,

I became very interested in mindfulness a few years back. For me, it's about living fully in the present moment without the distractions of worrying about the future or dwelling on the past. 

A book I found very helpful in explaining this was Eckhart Tolle's "A New Earth". I also like the website by Dr. Russ Harris, which has some free resources.  www.actmindfully.com.au

What I like to do is focus my attention- mindfully-  on a task at hand- even if it is something boring of otherwise unpleasant, like doing the dishes or taking out the rubbish bins. 

If I am taking out the bins, I like to feel the cool night air on my arms and legs. I like to look up at the sky and see the moon and the stars. I like to see the street-lights glowing in the dark. I hear the rumbling noise that the bins make as I wheel them out- it always sounds like thunder to me. I position the bins carefully and then I go back inside the warm, safe house. Somehow, I find moments of enjoyment in puting out the bins!  For me, this is mindfulness.

During the minute or so it takes me to put out the bins, I'm not thinking or the future and what I will do next and I'm not thinking of what I just did or said or about anything in the past. I'm just living in the moment. It gives me a nice, peaceful feeling. 

At other times, I do guided meditation to soundtracks from the internet. These are all about getting in touch with how my body is feeling in the here and now. And how my body and it's various aches and pains relate to what is going on in my mind. Because the mind and body are connected... if you can learn to relax your body- your mind with actually follow and also become relaxed. So strange, but true. 

[Appleblossom]

@Sahara

Your descriptions about the processes are good for when things work.

@Phoenix_RisingI need to use a variety of Mental and Movement practises including rehab exercises, dance, walking and other things mentioned on other threads.   I find conventional yoga a bit static.There are all these types that pop up, but cost more money for something similar, so I dont go.